Start working on getting citizenship in another country as a backup plan. But Norwegians needs to push back. I'm curious -- How do Norwegians feel about this? Will grocery stores need to add new software to implement this or can they do this already?
Start working on getting citizenship in another country as a backup plan. But Norwegians needs to push back. I'm curious -- How do Norwegians feel about this? Will grocery stores need to add new software to implement this or can they do this already?
I already am a citizen in another country ;) I don't think store will need to add any new software for this. The state are just going to demand the data from card payment company and the receipts from the stores.
Good to hear you have citizenship elsewhere. :) It looks like Norway has a very large Christian population (~68%). It seems like there would be more pushback since this has the characteristics of the "beast" system. In the US, the Church has woken up and is pushing back hard. Hopefully the same will happen in Norway.
Norway is increasingly secular. The numbers of registered "Christians" are massively inflated because until recently, you were enrolled in the state Lutheran church at birth unless your parents opted out. But on an average Sunday, those state churches play host to 2-5% of the local registered Lutherans. Actual practicing Christians are a (sizeable) minority, mostly in other Protestant denominations.
Norway has three main reasons for a lack of pushback:
1. The government has a high level of trust, and this is actually deserved in many ways. They don't govern by histrionics, but by teamwork and compromise. Corruption and crime are low compared to other countries, both in government and the populace at large. Their approach to Covid was actually much more reasonable than most western countries.
2. The unofficial "Law of Jante" which is basically a culture of social conformity. Norwegians don't like to stick out from the herd.
3. The average standard of living is much higher than most of the world, even among western countries, and resources are relatively evenly distributed. So people are generally very content with their lives and don't want to rock the boat.
So basically, Norway is already a social democratic nanny state in many ways, but it's been a pretty good nanny so far. But this means that the entire country is rolling along the rails towards totalitarianism, and most of the citizens are just admiring the scenery rather than trying to change directions.
Well, most people use apps and the like to get 'discounts'.
The state, then, doesn't have to obtain any data from the card provider (which would be easier = cheaper), but a 'workaround' may be the automated data provision by supermarket apps etc.
Also, don't forget that most 'memberships' in 'bonus clubs' and the like here in Norway are connected to one's cell phone number (as is the BankID and the phone-wallet app 'Vipps').
The state has access to people's phone numbers with the phone number connected to the BankID. I wrote about that in detail in an earlier article! Most people, like 99.9% I've seen in Norway pays cashless...Convenience of course!
Btw, 'my' bank recently told me that, in terms of pocket money, kids as young as 7 can get 'their own' debit card (as long as it's connected to either 'their' bank account or their parent'sтАж)
You know, the weirdest part was when we started doing that here in Norway, you end up at ATMs. First time we took out cash, we got an (of course electronic) letter by 'our' bank informing us that we would have 8 fee-free withdrawals per year.
I've lived in 'the US' (NYC) for a stint a couple of years ago, and I know from personal experience that fees for everything are insanely high and common. US$ 3 for any transaction here for this, US$ 15 for receiving a wire transfer there, and the like.
It's very different here: same-day electronic payments are the norm, no transaction fees, etc. Most people seem to be fine with it, I'm perhaps too old to remember the pre-internet days, hence my reluctance to embrace this brave new worldтАж
By the way, paying cash is still the thing to do for vitually anything below a couple of thousands of US$ or Euros.
Re the data (ab-) use: yep, the data is already being sold and resold to third parties, that much is clear. So far, gov'ts were not permitted to acquire them legally (even though I suspect that they already do, mainly via subsidiaries, private contractors, and the like), hence while I do object to these practices, I also think that this gov't-led push, certainly in cahoots with big business and high finance, is a way to 'streamline' these processes and thus cut operating costs.
Start working on getting citizenship in another country as a backup plan. But Norwegians needs to push back. I'm curious -- How do Norwegians feel about this? Will grocery stores need to add new software to implement this or can they do this already?
I already am a citizen in another country ;) I don't think store will need to add any new software for this. The state are just going to demand the data from card payment company and the receipts from the stores.
Good to hear you have citizenship elsewhere. :) It looks like Norway has a very large Christian population (~68%). It seems like there would be more pushback since this has the characteristics of the "beast" system. In the US, the Church has woken up and is pushing back hard. Hopefully the same will happen in Norway.
Norway is increasingly secular. The numbers of registered "Christians" are massively inflated because until recently, you were enrolled in the state Lutheran church at birth unless your parents opted out. But on an average Sunday, those state churches play host to 2-5% of the local registered Lutherans. Actual practicing Christians are a (sizeable) minority, mostly in other Protestant denominations.
Norway has three main reasons for a lack of pushback:
1. The government has a high level of trust, and this is actually deserved in many ways. They don't govern by histrionics, but by teamwork and compromise. Corruption and crime are low compared to other countries, both in government and the populace at large. Their approach to Covid was actually much more reasonable than most western countries.
2. The unofficial "Law of Jante" which is basically a culture of social conformity. Norwegians don't like to stick out from the herd.
3. The average standard of living is much higher than most of the world, even among western countries, and resources are relatively evenly distributed. So people are generally very content with their lives and don't want to rock the boat.
So basically, Norway is already a social democratic nanny state in many ways, but it's been a pretty good nanny so far. But this means that the entire country is rolling along the rails towards totalitarianism, and most of the citizens are just admiring the scenery rather than trying to change directions.
Well, most people use apps and the like to get 'discounts'.
The state, then, doesn't have to obtain any data from the card provider (which would be easier = cheaper), but a 'workaround' may be the automated data provision by supermarket apps etc.
Also, don't forget that most 'memberships' in 'bonus clubs' and the like here in Norway are connected to one's cell phone number (as is the BankID and the phone-wallet app 'Vipps').
Sadly, no-one (but me and my wife) pays cashтАж
The state has access to people's phone numbers with the phone number connected to the BankID. I wrote about that in detail in an earlier article! Most people, like 99.9% I've seen in Norway pays cashless...Convenience of course!
I know, since I live in Norway.
Btw, 'my' bank recently told me that, in terms of pocket money, kids as young as 7 can get 'their own' debit card (as long as it's connected to either 'their' bank account or their parent'sтАж)
Whoa!
Same in the USA. You are smart to use cash. I should but it's too late now.
Sadly, even anonymized data provided by companies to data brokers can be re-identified and is being used against us. This data collection needs to stop. https://anonyome.com/2020/12/re-identification-of-anonymous-data-is-scarily-simple/
You know, the weirdest part was when we started doing that here in Norway, you end up at ATMs. First time we took out cash, we got an (of course electronic) letter by 'our' bank informing us that we would have 8 fee-free withdrawals per year.
I've lived in 'the US' (NYC) for a stint a couple of years ago, and I know from personal experience that fees for everything are insanely high and common. US$ 3 for any transaction here for this, US$ 15 for receiving a wire transfer there, and the like.
It's very different here: same-day electronic payments are the norm, no transaction fees, etc. Most people seem to be fine with it, I'm perhaps too old to remember the pre-internet days, hence my reluctance to embrace this brave new worldтАж
By the way, paying cash is still the thing to do for vitually anything below a couple of thousands of US$ or Euros.
Re the data (ab-) use: yep, the data is already being sold and resold to third parties, that much is clear. So far, gov'ts were not permitted to acquire them legally (even though I suspect that they already do, mainly via subsidiaries, private contractors, and the like), hence while I do object to these practices, I also think that this gov't-led push, certainly in cahoots with big business and high finance, is a way to 'streamline' these processes and thus cut operating costs.